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The thing I totally can't understand. I work hard, I really give my best to make a great job, overwork a lot (my motto: do it good or don't do it at all). And then... none of my colleagues will appreciate it. None will come to me for an advise, none will talk to me about the achievements, ask any thing. Instead they only turn to mediocre people with social skills, and these people are the most popular advisors. What the heck? I feel like people are scared to come talk to me because I work so hard... What the heck???
Well, I won't say I'm boring as a person. I'm rather eccentric, and people from where I used to live never complained that I'm boring. But it seems, that it's not popular here to strive to achieve something. Instead you should imitate work, go drink coffee every five minutes, have your wochenendes and parties, and be bothered with the work whole day long before holy feierabend. And if you show true passion in doing your job, the threat of damping becomes real, and they start ignoring you. It happens involuntarily, you just fall outside the scope of common talks, and people don't want to talk about nothing but parties, anecdotes of how they were drunk the other day, and of course, complains about the job and other co-workers. And those are people making or having PhDs. They engage the same talks as blue-collars. Same, no difference... And their achievements are quite poor to be honest...
Any achievement is frowned upon here. My advice - get out of here. I've heard other German cities are better (Munich, Frankfurt), but in all honest, I'd check out Amsterdam, Paris, London (yeah I know, brexit and all that) or Warsaw, Cracow, Prague.
It took me some time to realize but Berlin is composed of the children of small town folk .Berlin got totalled during the war. So people from the surrounding countryside came here and brought their culture (that's why everything here smells like piss). Sure, they get PhDs, but for them, it's just a piece of paper.
Also, imagine your life if the government pays for everything you do until you finish your PhD. Up until 35 years of age you are, in essence, a child. You never had to work, you never had to risk anything, you never had to make tough choices - just wake up, eat breakfast, go to school, party, and have fun. No direction in life.
If you don't fit to the average Berliner mold then you'd frowned upon, no matter how talented you are and no matter what you do. Just like the comment by the musician from LA posted below. If you do it right and passionately, you are WRONG! You have to be mediocre in every aspect of your life - that's the Berlin way.
I just saw a man walk out of Lidl, root around in the bin in front till he found a carrier bag, tipped out the half eaten done inside and stuffed his shopping in his bag. He then walked to his car, how disgusting can one get to save 10cents
Great advise on this website. Also want to add: if you come from a culture such as Latin American, maybe Southern European, Israeli, etc basically just not your typical Western European person... You might find the coldness here very difficult. If you have decent social skills you can definitely acquire endless acquaintances and casual friends, but to make a real connection, have real warmth, is difficult. Especially if you come from a culture that is far far more warm than what is typical in Berlin. I am experiencing low grade depression right now primarily for this reason. I have made a few pretty close friends, but it's not enough. Everything just feels very cold here.
Also dating German guys: they tend to be good looking, but they lack warmth, personality and nuance. No sense of humor and when they do have a sense of humor, I find it's like a nasty bullying 10 year old child sense of humor. In general I find Germans overcompensate for their insecurities by being passive aggressive and nitpicking at others mistakes or weaknesses. I don't know if this is a German thing or a Berliner thing, but the average person here seems quite insecure. Also German men seem emasculated and this emasculation can make them into douchebags in surprising ways because it breeds this insecurity, where they are not confident in their masculinity. Yet I see the same in women here. The women here seem aggressive, manly and androgynous to me. The dating life here is hard. Many settle for sex and open dating/relationships, because after a while, when you lose human warmth, connections, real friends, etc, you start to become like everyone else around you. Peter Pan syndrome + bad communication + men confused of their masculinity + women confused of their femininity + the sense of endless hedonism, lack of responsibility etc = difficult to create or maintain relationships here.
The expats are all sorts, mainly transient (in Berlin part time or for a few months/years). Difficult to keep up with them.. Many seem to be attracted to Berlin because they think it's just this place they can go to to escape reality. Therefore you tend to find a lot of expats with mental or emotional problems here. Berlin doesn't exactly attract the most talented and brightest... It attracts rejects, for the most part. People come here because they can "be themselves". I still have no idea what that means... What/who was stopping them from being themselves where they were before?
People to the east and north of Germany can be just as warm as you darn southerners :). While I'd say that there's a lot less physical contact in eastern europe, there's a lot more openness and smiling there.
Also, as otehrs have said: your only option is to escape. Preferably before winter because the winter here is a HUGE bummer and if you're suffering low grade depression, you'll fall into major depression. No sun, no expats, just gray, cold, wet (no snow, too!) and very berliner'ish.
I so love Berlin. In fact Im going back in September after a timeout of 2,5 xears which I spent in Cologne. So what does that make me?
people saying they cannot find a job because they cannot find a job IN THEIR DISTRICT! no kidding...so they rather stay unemployed forever ( e.g if they are born in Neukölln they will do everything in Neukölln for the rest of their poor life). Also I hate the drunk drugged beggars in the trains... Seriously this state pays everyone a flat and money for nothing all they have to do is keep their poop together and don't miss the job centre appointments. But they do and decide to bother people on the way to work instead. Totally uncool. But it meets the spirit of Berlin. Being ruthless selfish and lazy is confused with being cool and independent.
There is no opportunity to have a fair salary for experienced foreign professional. You should compete with fresh graduates for salary expectation. Eventually, all those startups didn't aim for RESULT, they just playing in the game named "Find investor-waste all money-find new round". Formally they cut down expenses for labor, but this is the false mirror
80% of startups in Berlin are disgusting... total leeches on society. "Oh but it's the sharing economy...' boll*cks! it is the undercutting economy. There is nothing sadder than seeing some phd (probably studied philosophy...) grad riding a clapped out bicycle delivering pizzas to a load of Instagram models. Don't get me started on the folks who make meal boxes. This is all lifestyle poop with no integrity. There are no Salman Khans, Jimmy Wales here, just a bunch of wankers using interns or people with low self esteem as slaves.
Avoid like the plague. They may blabber on about social justice etc. Ask them how many people they employ or what they're doing to help the situation. The answer 'f*ck all'.
Sorry rant over. Also, happy Friday! may you all drown your sorrows and smile at strangers.
Yeah, startups here works like this:
1. Get money from investors.
2. Buy club mate and computers.
3. Create product no body uses.
4. Buy more club mate. Send people to conferences.
5. Lose those 3 users they had.
5a. (All the while paying salaries with someone's money)
6. Time to close up shop. "Bad market fit". Great resume item.
7. Founders and management get jobs at Big Gray German Companies (probably some automaker that cheats on emissions). Everybody else gets stuck on berlin startup carousel.
> may you all drown your sorrows and smile at strangers.
The locals will hate you for it. The expats will smile back knowingly. I'm ready to head out to welcome to gray autumn evening with some thai and beer. If you see a guy walking and smiling, say hi, that's me.
This is my story, kinda related. I was hired as a programmer in Berlin so I came down to the city to work in one of these over-hyped companies which really was a slightly better organized startup. They offered me 2500€ monthly. I gave them a counterproposal because I thought it was not enough for a coding position but they said that they could raise it after a few months in and gave me the same old argument of "but Berlin is cheap and fun yada yada" and I accepted mainly because I wanted a reason to live in Europe and explore the world. It was a surprise after I arrived in Berlin that: first the salary they offered was fake and second it did not include taxes or insurance but it's ok they offered me a raise, spoiler, it never happened. So let's break it down with some math. Of the 2.5k they offered only 1600€ was the real salary, no explanation. Supposedly, the rest was going to come to us in some form of bonds-stocks-options of the company next year. I guess this has something to do with the culture which until 2015 didn't have laws against exploitation and minimum salary. Approx 50% goes away in taxes which leaves us with 800-900€ of salary. 200-300€ of insurance premium, also goes away which is mandatory of course, as I'm not a EU citizen so I have to pay to one of these private insurance companies. That leaves us with approx 550€ to survive. What! Literally, Hartz 4 losers make more money than me while sitting on their butts all day. With that kind of money you can barely pay rent but that's ok, I've got savings and can do better I thought. So i got another job with a similar pretence, only this time it was actually 2800€ monthly with option of raise within 6 months, spoiler alert, it didn't come. Even though that is a 33k a year salary, if you break it down month by month you get, approx. 1300€ after taxes of which you have to pay 350€ - 400€ of insurance premium which leaves you with 1000€. If I paid 600€ in rent that would only leave me 400€ to eat, dress, transportation and to do stuff in a not so cheap city. To put that in perspective if you had this job you wouldn't have enough credit score to even buy a car. Right now, I literally make more money in an online website I made on weekends and nights while living in Berlin than what my company pays me. After my contract finishes this fall I'm soooo out of here. By the way, the rest of the city also sucks. Party and fun capital of Europe my ass.
I'm developer also. Startups are crap, they're after exploiting employees financially. My company offers 600euro for interns..600 euro for a university graduate engineer??!?!!
If you read exciting tech scene in Berlin etc it's a lie. Nobody knows how to develop software, except American originated companies. Engineering quality is not comparable to London or USA.
I'm also a dev working in startups. Salary is not always a problem I can think of some companies that are known to pay very badly (does incubator ring a bell?) while others seem to pay too well (at least when I see who they hire...) but overall this scene is a myth. It seems they think that "growing" is more important than actually delivering value which results in strange hiring ecstasy where everyone gets hired who did not say no early enough. Which results in big chaos and frustration and finally in firing most of them in the end. It's almost never the case that you have experienced technical people in the management nor that the dev department is really valued. How can they even think that a 20-something year old guy with no real-life experience can be CEO or CTO when all his employees have already more working experience? Also how can it be that someone is hired as Senior whatever who does not know the basics just because he lied about half his resume? I would love to work with some professionals at some point...just not sure where to find them ;)
Needless to say if you're a person of color (my case) job hunting becomes an impossible task. This actually happened to me: interviewer: "wow you look exotic, I bet you know a ton of weird languages?", me: "not really, just english and some German". interviewer: "I know you applied for a technical position but are you interested in customer service? In that way you can use your <<multiple languages>>, we are a company that pays well in the city so we can offer you 400€ monthly". After hearing that I just left. I almost lose it when he said that.
Most HR people here in Berlin are retards. Don't get me wrong, I'm not discriminating people on their jobs, most of the community are living corpses, but really HR people are extra stupid. They ask stupid questions , and they really seem to care the answer?!? Next time, if someone asks "what is your greatest weakness?", I'll answer "your genitals"!
I found this site at just the right time. I was feeling serious guilt about not loving Berlin and thinking maybe something was wrong with ME.
Things I hate about Berlin:
1) People: They think their way is the only way, they are right and you are wrong. Berliners (maybe Germans) don't make suggestions, they give instructions. They're also nosy as hell and always want to tell you what to do, "don't ride your bike on the sidewalk," "you can't cross now," "don't let the dog pee on the trees," "Can you speak quieter."
2) Coolness and the Glorification of Poverty: I find nothing cool about areas like Xberg and Neukolln. I find them overcrowded, absolutely filthy, horrible people in all service positions and overrun with 20 something year olds (oh and men in their 30-40s still trying to act like they're 20). I enjoy Friedrichshain, Mitte and Prenzlauerberg but I don't dare say it out loud because people scoff because they're too...clean, have some adults there? And my "friends" would never journey over the river to see that there is more than freaking Kottbusser Tor.
3)Dating: Instead of explaining I will tell a short story. I dated a guy for a few months. Nasty breakup because I "never listened to him" meaning never followed his suggestions (see point #1). Then on my birthday I receive an email....an invoice! An itemized list of all of the things he paid for while dating. But this kind gentlemen offered me two payment options 5 months or 7 months and also wished me a happy bday.
I have a work contract until July 2017 and then I'm out!
This is Germany, there are actually several reasons to ask for 'gifts' back de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenkung but still don't give him anything!
OMGF, I can't believe that there's rules and regulations governing the exchange of gifts between people. Just goes to show you that these people don't have souls or morals or ethics - they're stuffed with paper that's scribbled with rules. This is the saddest thing I've seen in a while.
Also, regarding your point #1 - this too is sad. If you ever want to observer Zee German in its natural habitat, hop on over to r/Germany on reddit. You'll find gems like a foreigner asking where they can exchange a jar of coins for bills and you'll get dozens of Germans calling the foreigner stupid and spoiled for not paying in exact change at every opportunity. That a much more wicked stuff. Also, this is how I get my kicks everyday. Crossing on red lights, paying with 50 euro bills, or just taking them for a ride during a talk ("No, zat ist vrong, zer ist a law...", "Oh my jolly friend, they changed the law, are you not aware of that" - watch the guy furiously google that poop because of the shame of the possibility of being wrong...). These folks have SERIOUS issues.
What is /r.Berlin not sure what you mean by that, I'm curious
Wtf you can ask gift back?!? What kind of people, what kind of people finds it normal?? This is the strangest thing I heard these days. Ok, if it's expensive jewellery or car etc. it's OK but dinner/lunch money? Germans are really cheap and stingy, disgusting.
I hate the people, I hate the dub on every tv channel, I hate that every person I talked with was angry, I hate the man at the tax refund..etc. The shopping is ok, but with the lack of help it's not wort it. One man even turned around when I was going to ask for directions. I will never come back!!! Never!!!!
All the Berliners who hate Auslanders (foreigners), will dirty their nappies when we all leave, because then they will be in the same boat as when the Wall was up, jobless and spying on each other. One side of me hates these people with a passion, but the other side.has compassion and empathy for them, or is it pity I feel.
They have no spark, no positivity, enthusiasm or optimism, they are stuck in some kind of weird time-warp of self-imposed misery. Even the black Africans treat them like a joke by openly selling drugs in one-time family parks.
Berlin reminds me of Lord Of The Flies, with no adult supervision of a bunch of boring brats, with no imagination whatsoever. There is nothing cool about Berlin, except the cheap beer and drugs that destroys 90% of the populations minds.
I came here as a jumping off point and to check out the hype. A musician I new in LA (my hometown) was out here originally for touring, but decided to stay for a bit. It was so sad, seeing what was someone I remembered as cheery and good natured appear like he aged 10 years in the past 2. The life has been sucked dry and he couldn't stop talking about the lack of opportunities. Berlin is a city for losers. Nothing quality really comes out of Berlin, its an echo chamber of fail. As a creative here, my impression is that you're basically wasting time and accepting your life as a failed __________ (insert some "artistic" endeavor). Berliners don't really think they can be successful-- they've recognized their mediocrity and surround themselves with similar people as a coping mechanism. Basically if you can't hack it in NYC, LA, London, Tokyo, etc etc (a real city) then move to Berlin in denial about your "under-appreciated" (non-existent) talent ;P
For real though, its been interesting being here for a week. I find the misery amusing vs the endearing stoicism when you go further east into the Balkans or the Baltic States. There at least you can crack the icy surface and fund genuine/warm people. I think Berliners lack a soul, and its entertaining to see how completely fascist and petty they are (everything I've basically expected dealing with Germans in SE Asia and elsewhere with their silly mocking laugh, while wearing poop clothes and making their faces red with beer and sun).
Anyways, I'm off to someplace better. I hope the PR machine of the tourist industry keeps the hype up and sending people here so they will avoid the lesser known cities on the planet. It's been real Berlin. Later!
This City is so boring and depressing.
Just go to expat hangouts. Bars where they have good beer and speak English or any other language. Lots of fun and cool people. If you see someone looking around, smiling, and with a dazed look - it's probably me taking a very needed breath of LIFE from this city. It's really great to walk into a bar like that and be greeted with laughter and feel at home.
I've wasted 5 years of my life trying to "get" Berlin, and I am just more confused than ever. Definitely time to leave them to their misery. The only good thing in Berlin is Mauer Park on Sundays, and what do the German Berliners say, "Oh, it's too crowded and it's too expensive", then they go to a festival with 80,000 other smelly people the next day instead. Mauer Park stalls that sell second hand stuff are so cheap even Indians fly in to make shopping trips there. You can get a whole wardrobe for €20. By the way the € symbol on a Mac is Opt+Shift +2
Get the hell out of here. Everyone leaves here in tears eventually, so might as well make it now. I'm leaving at the end of summer, I've been selling off stuff for the last month or two and I'm almost ready to escape over the Berlin Wall of misery and pessimism.
I too spend an unnecessary amount of time in that city trying to become a "good Berliner" whatever that means, 7 years to be precise and in my opinion there is nothing to get. "Getting Berlin" is just a moot quest, there is nothing to get, it is what it is and it's just the comforting idea Berliners need in order to survive in such a wasteland. That's why they build stores in secret locations, they make parties where no one is invited because if it was all public and in the open, the world collectively would be able to say, "wow, but Berlin IS a piece of crap after all!". After you have left take your time to re-engage in life once again. But remember no one who's lived there for long and after they've left has ever said: "I want to come back to Berlin". Good luck!
Really great website!
I hate everythin as well, especially middle aged people who dont wanna grow up and bevome an adult. Seriously, wtf is wrong with this people , there are no adults in the city??!??
I came for advice indeed, I'm thinking of moving to London. What do you think about London and its people?
Well if you have a well paying job I'd say go for it. Just don't be under any illusions about how life is here, work/life balance isn't great. As for German v British men, I'm a British guy so not sure what to say. I'd say we take life less seriously and have a good sense of humour. There are a lot of arseholes around though! same as anywhere else.
You're British heh:)
Ok, I'm a developer girl so I usually work late everyday anyway. I leave office mostly on 19.00. It's OK for me as I teally have 0 friends?!? I'm a warm person but I just can't someone to make friends.
Anyway, I work until late anyway in any case:) Thanks for the answers.
I had the chance to get a new and better job in London and left Berlin without hesitation. Even if you find the city too stressful and expensive there you will find better opportunities in your career, far better than the ones you will ever find in Berlin. Shortly after I moved to London I got a new and better offer in a different place (where I am at right now). So if you want to prioritize your career London is a good move. In London you can make friends and grow your contact network something that is almost impossible in Berlin.
+1 to that.
Tech scene in Berlin is crap and very unprofessional. Except bunch of big companies, nobody knows how to produce software. London is great for developers, even startups are very professional. Berlin startups are poor, unprofessional and full of crap.
My priority is to be happy indeed. I'm a good looking 28 year old girl and single for 2 years, teally sick of it. No friends, no boyfriend, no love, no human touch my inside died. Believe me, I'm at the point saying: fornicate career development I just dont wanna be alone anymore.
In you're so afraid of dating in Berlin (I get it) the dating pool in London is a lot more more diverse than the one in Berlin where you will find 80% immature narcissists 15% of ketamine addicts and maybe a 5% potential partners. In London you will find people from all across England and the world with a wide variety of personalities. Germans come in only one flavor: german. But in London you will find (real) artists, jocks, geeks, extroverted, introverted... you get the idea. The same happens in other real cities, not just London. Yes, the London dating scene is full of hacks and whatnot but you might find someone you'll truly like. Something that's not so likely in Berlin. London is uber expensive and stressful, don't disregard that by the way. London can drain you financially and mentally, in a different way than Berlin though.
Heh thanks for the tips!
Problem here is that, I really met no men suitable for me?!? Where are decent, adult men? All I met was 30 year old adolescents, guys dont want any responsibility, dont wanna start a family.
Im a romantic and old fashioned girl.
Instead of London, Im thinking of more "serious" cities like Zurich, Munich or London. I'll do more boyfriend hunt:) , if not goodbye sh.t Berlin!
By the way, I have a weird story as well. I met a cute guy, an Eastern European. He's not good looking as German dudes, but warm, chatty and lovely. Ok, he brought bunch of small gifts to my office chocolate, flowers, stuffed animals. 2 weeks ago he asked me out after flirting for long and it was a lovely dinner. Last week he went to vacation with his girlfriend?!??! He told me:I'm going to short vacation with my gf and I was like wtf??!! What girlfriend??!? I'm still shocked. He grew up in Berlin...believe me this city's people are not normal!!!!
Absolutely agree about the Feminazis and their mindless complaining about mythical wage-gaps.
Don't take my word for it, have a look what these women have to say about the Unicorn-like wage-gap (below).
I had two girlfriends in Berlin and they both left me emotionally traumatized. I've been single for two years now and I've finally clawed back my self-confidence.
Everyone eventually leaves Berlin in tears.
www.wsj.com/articles/the-wage-gap-myth-that-wont-die-1443654408
time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/
blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-myth/
blog.independent.org/2015/10/08/the-gender-wage-gap-a-myth-that-still-just-wont-die/
dailycaller.com/2015/08/31/study-busts-gender-pay-gap-myths-as-young-women-earn-more-than-men/
www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/
Is Potsdam as bad as Berlin? Certainly there are less urine and nicer surroundings. Are people any different?
Yes - they're even bigger rednecks than Berliners.
See, Berlin got totalled during WW2. So it's filled with people from the surrounding country side. That's why Berliners piss everywhere or blow their noses on the street. Imagine if a city like New York was composed of 80% of people straight from homosexual Alabama.